Alicia Ashley Takes On North Korea, Michelle Rodriguez, and Chess! An ESB Exclus
Chess Strategy
ESB: Hey Alicia! First thing's first, how did you ever wind up fighting in North Korea? Did you approach them or did they contact you?
Alicia: I got a call from the WBC to set up the fight, which is generally what happens for me.
ESB: Are Americans even allowed into North Korea or were you just a one-time exception?
Alicia: That actually was a special occasion. That was the only time they were accepting Americans into the country because they were celebrating their 60th anniversary of their independence from Japan. So they had a celebration lasting a few months and they opened visas to the U.S. for a couple of American citizens.
Alicia: We flew'yeah' we couldn't fly directly, so we actually flew to South Korea, and then they don't have a flight to North Korea, so we had to fly to China and then to North Korea. That must have been at least a day's travel. 16 hours to South Korea, and then 6 from there to China, then, finally, we got there.
Then when we got there, we had to give up our passports, cell phones (laughing), just had to give up everything. You couldn't make calls there, you couldn't travel without the group.
ESB: Yeah, I think your brother almost forgot to give up the phone and had to go back?
Alicia: It was at the airport, we had to give up our passports and phones to the head of the group. I don't know'I mean, I have NO IDEA what they did with that stuff.
ESB: Were you at all afraid that with North Korea's reputation, something bad could happen to you or your team?
Alicia: Actually, I wasn't; I mean, that is the one thing everybody asks me about and truth is, they were very respectful; they didn't get in the way. There were about four of us from the U.S., anyway.
Alicia: My trainer and brother Devon, and I had another corner person, and a WBC official.
Alicia: Pyongyang, which is their capital, and we stayed at a hotel there, and other than the first night, when they had a performance that we all went to, I really didn't travel, cause I was there to fight.
Alicia: I think we stayed two, three days. We got in, the next day was the weigh in, and then the next day we fought and then after that, we left. So, I really wasn't there to be social. I really didn't have time to be social, it took a lot of time for me to get acclimated because I was traveling so much, so that really took a lot out of me.
Alicia: They had a performance that had like one hundred thousand participants, and it was totally synchronized. It was beautiful, like, you know, at the Superbowl, where you have everyone doing the same thing? Well, they are doing the same thing for an entire hour! They generally had at least fifteen to twenty thousand people on the field. It was a huge open air arena, and you had people going on and off, synchronized, doing different designs, flowers, acrobatics. It really was beautiful and they had kids, too. I hear it took them six months for them to set that up. I think they couldn't even get all those people in the same school to practice it, so they did it in different locations and then synchronized it, probably.
Alicia: There actually wasn't a lot. When we came in that first evening, it seemed very desolate, and the one or two days I went out, it was the same, no cars on the road. There it is a lot more walking or public transportation.
ESB: Ok, let's talk about the fight. Were there elaborate entrances with music and what not?
Alicia: Not really, everything was straightforward, other than them playing the American anthem for me. I don't even remember, and for me, I don't have a fight song (chuckles). I usually just tell people to play what they want. So, they might have played some music when I walked in but I just don't recall.
Still, they were extremely respectful, like I didn't get any boos when I walked in. You get that a lot in the States (laughing) or in other places, if they want to only cheer for the hometown person.
ESB: Interesting. I was going to ask if they cheered for you at all?
Alicia: No, not cheering, but they did actually clap, and you know they didn't boo.
ESB: Well, can you tell us about the fight? Is it safe to assume you were robbed?
Alicia: It is safe to say there is a lot of favoritism (chuckling), as there generally is in boxing. There were three things that happened: one, was that I knocked her down, maybe in the third, and they ruled it a slip; Then another was she pushed my head down and they took a point away from me!
Alicia: Yeah, saying that my head is down, and I am like, 'What are you talking about?' and, I mean, even if my head is down, first you give a warning. So that also changed the fight. Then, another thing, was when I had her on the ropes, the ref came and broke it up, and I am like, 'ok, why?' (laughing)
Alicia: No, it wasn't a clinch, I was throwing punches, she is on the ropes and he came and separated us, so there were definitely instances of bias. You know, fact of the matter is, this ref was from China, and after the fight, any time, cause he traveled with the group from China, he would see me, like at the hotel, he would avoid looking at me and he would always apologize.
Alicia: Yeah, apologize, for the fight. So, it's like 'ok, yeah, that is all good and well, but, it's like, (laughing) we know this is how it has to be, if you come back here,' yet, that is not doing me any good, cause now I have this loss, that I know I didn't deserve.
ESB: So basically, it was your fight, like you dominated all the way?
Alicia: Yeah, it was, you know what I think, it just would have been a really good fight.
ESB: Was it considered a big event, sort of like America vs. North Korea?
Alicia: Actually, I don't think they really played up America versus North Korea, they really didn't play it up. I think it was just like a big event, because it was the first title fight that they were having in North Korea, and having like one of their fighters challenge for a world championship.
ESB: Give us your thoughts about the country? Is it as bad as they say? Better, worse?
Alicia: I really didn't see much, I didn't get a chance to travel. The group did they went into town to shop, they went to some temple in the mountains. So, I didn't get to see any of the country at all.
Alicia: My brother did go but I am not sure if he went into town. He might have, though. He didn't go to the temple either cause that was an hour ride and if I was going to stay, he would make sure I trained.
Alicia: Oh, they had a room where I could work the pads and there was a treadmill and an open area, so I had a chance to do some work.
Alicia: It's never a worthwhile purse for females (laughing). I think I made five thousand.
Alicia: No, that is just generally what they pay women, but it's not necessarily good. I mean, Laila Ali walks in and because of her name, for a four round fight, she would make twenty five thousand dollars and that is obviously a major difference. Then people who are in the game, who are world champions? Like if I was a male and a champion, there is no way I wouldn't be making six figures.
I am a three-time world champion and I am not even making five figures and that is the name of the game for female boxers. You ask any female boxer and they have a full time job. Any woman who does boxing has to do it for the love of the sport, cause you can't really make a living at it.
ESB: WOW! I mean, like Leyla (Leidecker, not Ali) told me you were making like 200 bucks a fight.
Alicia: Well, generally, it is $200 a round, even in the States. It says in the contract that you get paid $200 based on the number of rounds the fight is scheduled for. So, say a 4 round fight is 800 dollars, even if I knock her out in the first.
ESB: Ok, well compared to North Korea, China seems almost like an after thought. Still, that is not a conventional place to fight, either.
Alicia: No, it isn't. Actually, I think that was the first one (i.e. title fight) they put on there, too. It was a very big event; a lot of press for it. There, I got to travel a lot, and be more sociable cause I went there earlier, which I was happy about, cause it gave me more time to get acclimated. We socialized more because everybody was at the same hotel, and we ate in the same room, and they took us to see the Pandas and shopping, and so it was a more social event in that sense.
Alicia: Yeah, they had training facilities at the hotel, but I didn't spar. I generally don't spar the week I am about to fight.
Alicia: I was there about a week. Usually, it takes about two days to get used to the time change. So the first day, I was sleeping trying to wake up at their time, then the next day, I worked out a little bit and for a few more days.
ESB: So it was more relaxed there. I mean, I know you had to stay with a driver in North Korea, right?
Alicia: The one thing is in North Korea, you had to go as a group everywhere; you couldn't go, say, shopping by yourself. In China, though, it was like, 'here is your hotel card, here is a map, we can take you into town, you can take a taxi back,' so we were able to come and go as we pleased.
ESB: You obviously fought in a lot of places, so where would you want to fight that you haven't fought in yet?
Alicia: I don't know just cause, I might as well get to travel (chuckling). There and the Phillipines, cause I know they put on quite a bit of fights there. I also think they have a few female fighters. So, those are the two places that are very interesting.
ESB: Well, I know you are from Jamaica, so would you like to fight there?
Alicia: Oh, Sure, I would love to fight in Jamaica, to get that hometown crowd. It's the same thing, I have yet to fight in New York City. Traveled all over but I have yet to fight here. It's not our fault, though, cause we have been trying to get on a promoter's card here but it just doesn't seem to work. It's easier to get a fight in Vegas then here.
ESB: Well, that is what I wanted to ask cause you usually fight their hometown stars, but can you get a tomato can or something for a local fight or is that not fulfilling?
Alicia: Yeah, it's possible; the thing is, I don't want a tomato can. Especially in New York, my hometown, I want to showcase my skills and it won't do me any good if I get someone I can just walk in and knock out. None of my fights have been that way, because from my first pro fight, I've been fighting champions.
ESB: Yeah, I mean, it is hard to follow female boxing, but even so, there are many recognizable names on your record.
Alicia: I've always tried to fight the best, even if my record is not great, I can always say I fought the top fighters. Even though you look at the records of the girls in China and North Korea, you have to remember they had extensive amateur careers. So, it's not, 'oh, she was only 2 and 0,' because they actually had more fights than I had, because they had a much longer amateur career than I did.
So, I know going to these places, that I will get tough fights and that is the kind of opponent I want to have in New York. Sure, I would love to have an advantage, but that is what having hometown fans is supposed to give you.
ESB: Now, when you are not fighting in different countries, you fight in different weight classes?
Alicia: Well, I started out as a featherweight, and I actually went up in weight to fight a couple of people, which was not a good thing to do, because you don't have the power, because they are coming down from a higher weight class.
I think when I fought for my first title, I weighed in at 122 and my trainer said you can fight for a title at that weight, and I got the opportunity to fight at that weight and that was my second title shot. When I weighed in for that, I weighed 119, and then they told me, 'I could make 118' (laughing), and by doing that, we figured out that was my best weight. I mean, I fought at 115, too, but my natural weight is 118. I walk around at 121, so its no big deal to get down to that. I haven't really gone up since I made that track down.
ESB: Yeah, I was going to ask how high would you be willing to go up in weight? Can we expect Alicia Ashley vs Vonda Ward?
Alicia: No, that doesn't make any sense. I spar with guys all the time but, I mean, it doesn't make any sense. What good is it going to do? It's going to be viewed as a side show, a freak show, so its not worth it.
Alicia: Yeah, I went to training camp with him. Juan Guzman, who just fought on the De la Hoya card. Oh, also, there was one guy, forgot his name'I think, I sparred with Vivian Harris and Agapito Sanchez. Raul Frank, who trains here at the gym. So, I sparred with a lot of the guys.
Alicia: Yeah, you know, they don't take it easy on me (laughing), which I am happy about, because I hate it when guys are like, 'ok, it's a female, let me hold my punches back.' They don't, they really respect me; they know I can hit back, also.
ESB: Which boxers, if any, are you friends with outside the ring?
Alicia: I don't know. I really don't speak to anyone outside of the gym.
Alicia: The one that I like is a very complete fighter. Well, maybe not that complete, but, Belinda Laracuente, and she fought Christy Martin before, when she was very young, and she is also a traveler. I like her, stylewise, and for me, that is more important. For instance, I like Floyd Mayweather, Jr., as a male boxer and before that, I really liked Roy Jones, Jr., because of the styles they have.
ESB: Yes, I was going to ask who are your favorite male fighters. So, Mayweather and Jones?
Alicia: Yeah. Don't really like the heavyweights because there is not much movement to them. I like the lighter weight classes, usually, except before, for Jones. Mosley used to be my favorite, too.
Alicia: Actually, no. Mosley came to the gym, but I wasn't there for that. Mayweather, I met his father and uncle, because I went to Vegas to fight and ended up going to that gym. His father, actually, complemented me, in saying I fight like his son (laughing), so that was a very nice thing, so I was like, 'oh, thank you.'
ESB: Wow! That is pretty wild. Do you think there are any big fights out there in the world of female boxing like Megafights?
Alicia: I think there can be because there are a lot of women that have been in the game for a while. People in the game know them and if you put them on, it will be a really good match up. I mean, you got Laila Ali that is fighting all these girls, but not Ann Wolfe and that would be a great fight. Chevelle Halback, I think she went to Canada and fought, but the fighter who she ended up fighting, was kind of crappy. Trying to think of somebody in her weight class for her to fight. Still, there are a lot of people, where if you put up the experience versus the experience, it will be exciting.
Alicia: I really don't think there is anybody in my weight class that I would have to worry about.
ESB: Obviously, many of your losses were most likely robberies. Which opponents did you really feel you lost to, if any?
Alicia: Out of all those officially, there is three fights that I really believe I actually lost. One was definitely to Hallback; that was a stupid fight to do (laughing), cause she was a powerhouse, and I went up two weight classes, so that was extremely stupid. Laura Serrano, was and is, well, I don't know if she is still fighting, a phenomenal fighter and that one I think I took on my third fight or fourth fight, and she won, definitely. I can't remember the third one.
Alicia: No, the crowd thought I won that one, actually, cause she was extremely bloodied up when we were finished.
Alicia: Well, that one was pretty close and I couldn't say, but it could have gone either way. And I think she got it cause it was in her hometown.
Alicia: Definitely the Hallback fight, cause she can really hit, most definitely. Serrano, I think, because she was such a complete fighter, that she can catch you from anywhere, cause she had such great combinations. But Hallback, you just have to watch out for bombs. So, if you could stay away and run around the ring, (laughing) then you can survive, which is what I basically ended up doing, anyway. Serrano was just a complete fighter, she had combos, movement. She wasn't that hard a puncher but she definitely knew what she was doing.
Alicia: Definitely Elena Reid cause that was my only stoppage win.
ESB: Now she is actually somewhat known. Was she a good fighter?
Alicia: She was a good fighter but she was the kind that was used to somebody just standing there. So, from watching a tape of her, you could see she did the same thing over and over, because if you stood in front of her, she threw a lot and if you didn't, she would be in trouble. With me, I am the type of fighter that moves, and once she got frustrated, that was it; And she got frustrated after the first round.
ESB: Now you are also a dancer since age 6. How has that helped in boxing?
Alicia: Well, it made me more of a boxer, because I could move, like the slips that I do. Actually, a lot of people see that in my boxing straight away, they say, 'oh, you move like a dancer,' and I say, 'yeah, I danced for 15 years (laughing).' Definitely, it lets me move easier because with a lot of people, you really have to work for them to move, to get out of the way to use their legs, you know. So it just helps a lot, which by the way, is why I don't get a lot of knockouts, because I am always moving.
Alicia: Exactly, you have to really stand there, plant your feet to get a knockout going. It's something I have been working on; how to get the body shots going, so I have been getting a lot stronger. But still, you want to be able to fall back on mobility, to get out of trouble and not having people be able to get those strong shots on you cause you are standing right there.
Alicia: Yes. I have a second-degree black belt. I had gotten injured while I was dancing, and I messed up my knee, so I couldn't dance anymore, so for exercise, I started doing Karate, cause my brother did Karate for a long time. So, I actually did it for exercise, and because I was such a performer, I started doing tournaments and that is how I ended up doing kickboxing because the Karate tournaments for me started getting boring, so I went to the next thing. In my third amateur kickboxing match, I fought a boxer, so she had the hands and I had the feet, and the reason I won was because I had the much better feet. She really had to come in and I was able to keep her off, although when she got me into a corner, I didn't know what to do, which is why I ended up taking boxing, so I could get better at kickboxing.
ESB: Of the three, which is the toughest if you would have learned each separately without knowing the others and why?
Alicia: The hardest would be kickboxing because you have to have hands and feet, so it takes a lot more out of you then boxing does. With Karate, you can just use your feet the whole time.
ESB: How did you end up getting a role in the film 'Girlfight'?
Alicia: Actually, Michelle Rodriguez came here to train for the three months before the filming started. So we sparred quite a bit, cause she was training at that time with my trainer, Hector Roca, and when the movie people said, 'oh, we have to find you an opponent,' she suggested me, 'oh, like I have been sparring with this girl and we work pretty well together.' So, I was just in the right place at the right time.
ESB: Did you like how they handled the boxing aspect of that film?
Alicia: Actually, yes, well at least my scene with her cause we worked on choreographing it. I didn't like the premise of it cause she had to fight all these guys. So, ok, whatever. The stunt coordinator, that worked on the boxing, worked on a lot of combinations, then later, he said, 'this isn't sparring right now, we will film and when I say, 'go,' you do your combinations,' and so it worked pretty well.
ESB: Is that your favorite movie about boxing and if not which is and why?
Alicia: My favorite boxing movie? Actually, I don't have one. I only watched Rocky, maybe five years ago and I was unimpressed (laughing). I haven't seen, like, Hurricane or any of the other ones. A lot of them are, like, which was the one with Russell Crowe last year, that was ok. The thing is, it's the same reason I don't play boxing video games, because I am in it. So if I do it, it's really no fun to watch it and play it, cause If I am watching it, I am going to critique it, like, 'you could see that they are not hitting each other,' or 'this punch was all the way over here,' and the camera angles they do, are not even close, so there is not much enjoyment in that.
Alicia: (laughing) Oh, no, I don't want to sit down and criticize; I like to enjoy my movie.
Alicia: I'm in, 'Strangers with Candy,' which is supposed to come out next month and that is a comedy. It was a series on Comedy Central and they made it into a feature length movie. I filmed that almost like, 2 years and it's finally getting distributed, and they had the premier last week, and I am like, in one of the opening scenes, where it's a major fight scene, when she is in jail.
Alicia: Yeah, I argue with her and we get into a big fight.
Alicia: Well, I am doing some auditions now, but I don't know what will come of it.
ESB: Lets talk a bit about your family. Your trainer is your brother, Devon. If you saw the Trinidad - Wright fight, Papa Trinidad Sr. seemed, in my opinion, to be sugarcoating the fight in between rounds for his son. Has this ever happened, where your brother was not entirely honest with you in this regard?
Alicia: Oh, NO, NO! (laughing) He will say to me, like, 'I think you lost that round,' or 'you have to do more,' so he will never sugarcoat it. He has never done that cause that is the type of person I am; like I will come into the corner already thinking, I did crappy, but he will say, 'that was a good round,' and I am like, 'What?' (laughing) 'I thought I did horrible.' There are times when he goes 'you won that,' and I don't feel like I did anything, but I trust what he says.
Alicia: Yes. Later, I will watch the tape and go, 'oh, I didn't think I did this good throwing so many uppercuts and body shots.' He generally tells me.
Alicia: Most of the time, I just listen, unless I don't understand what he is saying. Plus, I can also hear him when I am in the ring.
ESB: Do you think it is easier or harder to have family in the corner as trainers, sort of like with Chris Byrd, the Klitschko's, and Trinidad?
Alicia: For me, it has been ok; I don't think it's harder in any way. I mean, he knows me pretty well. He is the oldest brother, so I don't have any like sibling rivalry (laughing), cause there is such a big age difference, you know, like 9 years. So, he has always been the older brother and I am just used to listening to him.
ESB: Your other brother, Maurice Ashley, is the first black grandmaster in chess. Who is better, you at Chess or him at boxing?
Alicia: (Laughing) Probably equally horrible. (laughing) I would say, me, because I at least know the moves. (Laughing) He doesn't know boxing at all; I don't even think he knows what a jab is.
Alicia: Only a couple of my amateur fights, the one or two at the Garden he has been to. All my pro fights have been away, so he hasn't been to my pro fights. We are really trying to get a pro fight in New York, cause just the people at the gym would be a huge crowd.
ESB: Did you hear about the new sport of ChessBoxing in Europe?
ESB: Yeah, it's like alternating rounds and you can win by checkmate or knockout.
Alicia: (laughing) I don't think they have much to do with themselves over there.
ESB: You would never compete in something like that if Maurice trained you?
Alicia: (laughing) No, I think they would checkmate me, although if we boxed first?
ESB: (Laughing) Yeah, I mean, there is a lot of strategy involved in that. Would your parents rather have had another chess player in the family or another boxer?
Alicia: My mom, she has never seen me boxing; actually, she has never seen me in karate, either, but she is very proud of me and what I have done. So they are happy, you know. She is a world champion here, and he is a grand master there, so they are happy in that sense.
ESB: Which boxer do you think would make a good chess player with the right training and why?
Alicia: Mayweather because I think he uses strategy a lot. When he went in to fight Gatti, people expected him to run around and he didn't. He comes out and surprises you, and now people know he is not just a mover and he can stand there and fight. So he employs strategy and that is what you need in chess.
Alicia: Well, now I just train people. I have a degree in Computer Science and I used to be a computer support technician, and then I ended up doing life insurance, cause I wanted more time to train, and then I ended up doing paralegal work. Last year, though, I just took time off and got a lot more clients and now I am able to just train people and work out and fight.
Alicia: It's a lot more white-collar people then anything. There are one or two women, who will be competing in the golden gloves, but I don't know what their aspirations are beyond that. Majority are white collar, though.
Alicia: Big movie buff. There are days when I go and see three movies at the theaters. I have a group of friends I grew up with, and that I have known for 20 or so years that I generally hang out with.
Alicia: All kinds. I mean, I am part of the screen actors guild, so I get a lot of their Oscar worthy movies, that before, I would not have spent my money to see, but because I was able to see them I got an appreciation for all kinds of movies. So, I like everything except, like, gangster movies.
Alicia: My all time favorite is the 'Princess Bride.' Also, the one with Michelle Pfeiffer and Rutger Hauer' 'LadyHawke.' I like cartoons, too.
Alicia: Animation, like finding Nemo. Oh, and I like 'X-Men.'
Alicia: That, too, I like quite a bit, except for Rock, and I am not really a metal head or techno. You know, I am Jamaican, so got to listen to the reggae, and R & B, not so much rap, because I can't understand a lot of it (laughing) cause I can't understand it, but the music in itself, like the beats for rap, I really like, so more of that, than Hardcore rap. Also, old fashioned country, like Kenny Rogers. Also, I like James Ingram, Whitney in her heyday, Kelly Clarkson, Christina Aguilera. Oh, and like Mariah in her heyday, later, she is more pop, although she still has the voice, but she doesn't use it in her music as much.
Alicia: Definitely trying to get that fight in New York, so that fans can really see me other than on TV. I really want everyone to come when I do get my fight in New York. I am just happy to have the support that I do.
Thanks a lot to Alicia for sharing her time with us and here is to hoping some New York promoter is reading this and looking to get a hold of Alicia for that big MSG bout.
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